The one purpose of churches and religions is the employment of clergy. Their only qualification is that they may have extensively read one book and proclaim themselves experts. Anyone can read that book and come to their own conclusions. There is no reason for the State to subsidize the clergy, especially in the schools.

I think this is the question of most relevance for the future of our country.

Some commenters have claimed that atheists are seeking to ban religion. Although I cannot speak for all atheists, every atheist I know is more concerned with obtaining a secular society which neither privileges nor discriminates on the grounds of religion. In the interests of a bit of clarity, I am providing the following link to a clip about secularism. It is a British-made video, but I would suggest that the philosophy behind it matches with that of secularists (which includes theists and atheists) in this country also. Australia also shares many of the same issues faced in England. Happy viewing! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dA3YF73SNuY&feature=player_embedded#!

Excellent link. Thank you.

joe sedlacek · 10 months ago

A friend of mine is currently studying education at a Christian university, another friend is studying education at a normal uni. I love them both but I know which is able to articulate her knowledge and opinions on education related theories, policies and practices and which is not. My friend at the Christian university has also told me they have been taught ways to preach to students in state schools without technically breaking any rules. It is funny that church going Christians are such a small minority and yet so strongly over represented in politics.

More quotes from ACCESS CEO, showing they absolutely intend on converting children: "In Australia we have a God-given open door to children and young people with the Gospel, our federal and state governments allow us to take the Christian faith into our schools and share it. WE NEED TO GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES... Never before have we had such an open access, such open door. CHRISTIANS from other countries envy our opportunities, THEY CAN'T BELIEVE WE HAVE THIS SITUATION. I believe that this is the greatest mission field we have in Australia: our children and our students. Our greatest field for disciple making... [W]e must develop the right attitude and framework and goals and models in order to see not only Christian ministry taking place but CONVERSION... To minister to students is a cross cultural mission, and much of our thinking about ministry in schools has had the goal that our students will be contacted, CONVERTED, and discipled in order to lift them up with the local church... "We need CHRISTIAN TEACHERS in the STATE schools... where kids have never heard the gospel" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tklEajBeKpQ 2008 speech transcript: http://www.scribd.com/doc/55338278/ACCESS-Ministry-s-head-Evonne-Paddison-s-speech-to-Anglican-Evangelical-Fellowship

Argument aside of whether it's right to teach R.E in public schools at all, I have a strong issue with what is actually 'Christian Education' being pawned off as 'Religious Education'. The poor excuse for a subject doesn't teach kids about religion, cultural and religious differences or tolerance of each others' individual beliefs, it teaches them about the Christian bible and nothing else.

You're spot on there. This is probably why it is called SRE - Special religious eduction (NSW) or CRE - Christian religious education in Victoria (I'm not sure about the terms in other states). I'd be happy to have my kids attend a comparative class on religion, but funnily enough, religious groups don't really like the idea.

Peter P. · 10 months ago

Comparative religion or no religion (in state schools) are the only two options I see that do not involve discrimination. I think the Education Act 1872 (Vic) had it right "based on principles of secular, compulsory and free education. Religion was a source of conflict to be avoided... so government schools were to be secular with no teaching of religion." (http://foundingdocs.gov.au/item-sdid-25.html#significance)

m kay · 10 months ago

Argument aside of whether it's right to teach R.E in public schools at all, I have a strong issue with what is actually 'Christian Education' being pawned off as 'Religious Education'. The poor excuse for a subject doesn't teach kids about religion, cultural and religious differences or tolerance of each others' individual beliefs, it teaches them about the Christian bible and nothing else.

ACCESS MINISTRIES claims: "ACCESS Ministries does not and never has condoned proselytizing (~converting) in schools" But then, "cre workers are definately there to present the gospel... chaplains it's not always as overt as that, it is much more COVERT" (11min 55sec) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl6TZL7SXFw

Surely this relates to the fact that 61.1% of the Australian population define themselves as Christian (2011 census)? I certainly can understand the advocacy of separation of church and state, but the majority of Australians remain Christian, and near 70% (68.3%) are religious. 22.3% are of 'no religion' - a minority, in other words - and there is a 9.4% hole is the statistics for 'inadequately described (supplementary codes) religions and people who did not state a religion'

Sam, it's not about who is religious and who is not. State schools are supposed to provide a secular educational environment; that is to say, an environment suitable to those of all faiths. Never mind atheists; what about Catholics? Jews? Hindus? Muslims? It is unhelpful and divisive to have Chaplains who, for the most part, are evalengelical christians representing a small sectarian view. It is far better to have no faith position presented that one that is not representative.

Jeff Keogh · 10 months ago

And, it should be pointed out that majority of those who identify with one religious group or another do not necessarily hold to those beliefs, but rather tick the box they've always ticked. Keep in mind that only 7.5% report regular church attendance - that should give you a strong clue about the state of religious adherence in Australia.

Jeff Keogh · 10 months ago

Im an atheist and went to a christian school as a kid - I never felt in any way that the Christian agenda was being pushed at me - the school's philosophy was to value science but religion was valued for providing personal and spiritual comfort, not for pushing dogma at me.

I had a very similar experience Paul (though I am not an atheist) but there is no doubt - as can be witnessed from Mr Long's clearly very wounded and jaded exposition below - that other people have much worse experiences. Though I will say it is interesting how much worse people's experiences become when viewed through hindsight and later obtained knowledge.

Jerry Blindhard · 10 months ago